"Don't weigh in on grade" option for logging climbs

Jacob Blank

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Hi,

I would really like to see an option not to weigh in on the grade when you are logging climbs, that way those who don't have a strong opinion don't contribute to the climb's grade. I also have the opinion that this should be the default option. A few benefits:

Allows aggregate grades to be more reflective of only those climbers who have a strong opinion on the grade.
Allows everyone to take the aggeregate grade of a climb after weighing in on the grade for ranking purposes. It's petty haha, but if I honestly believe a climb considered 7C+ to be 7C, and I log it thusly, my score currently reflects having sent 7c, whereas my friend who just logged the default grade without a strong opinion gets the points for doing 7C+. This can cause situations where me and my friend, having the same top 10 scorecard, have different rankings due entirely to our opinions. The current setup punishes climbers for having honest opinions.
Grades will be more accurate over time. My home crag, the Niagara Glen, has a handful of climbs whose grades have changed over the years by local concensus. Be it because new holds are used, old holds are broken, new beta discovered, whatever. However, since the old, ~ 20 year old grades were logged first, anyobody who doesn't have a strong opinion on the grade often automatically logs the default old grade. A great example of this is "Closed Eye Visuals", which is concencus 7C now, put up at 7C+.

7 replies

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Mic Huizinga

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Surprised there are no replies to this. I think this would be a perfect solution. This is also an issue in Leonidio, where many routes were originally added with super soft grades, which have long been changed in the newer guidebooks. But they keep getting logged with those because it's the default grade here and in the app.

Riccardo Ranieri

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Totally agree!

keeg an

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This goes hard . give me my points (also the reply UI in dark mode sux)

Kaltfront .

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Would be a good idea!! especially since some routes still remain given the initial grade although majority vote agrees on 7c+ (whitout anyone logging the 8a.nu-grade): https://www.8a.nu/crags/sportclimbing/austria/hoellental/sectors/kippwandl/routes/amour-fou/

Ben Lepesant

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The no-suggestion-option is good, but it it will be a long time till it makes a difference. We'll have to look into grades at some point and when we do, we'll also consider this. Thank you for the good suggestion! Also, using the database grade for ranking purposes doesn't work for many reasons, and it would take the scoring out of the hands of the climbers (where imo it should be) and put it into the hands of the database (where it should not be). The ranking is not some sort of capital t Truth, database or not, and it's a game and honesty is part of it. Re. the Amour fou - 8a was the grade given when the route was created, hence the default (and not enough ascents for us to change it automatically). The creator of the route can change it. I now changed it to 7c+. Local moderators can make further changes. And about the reply ui, that's not the UI, that's a bug :-) we'll fix it.

Jacob Blank

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Hi Ben, thanks for reading!

I don't really understand what you mean by the following: "Also, using the database grade for ranking purposes doesn't work for many reasons, and it would take the scoring out of the hands of the climbers (where imo it should be) and put it into the hands of the database (where it should not be)." In the example I provided, both parties could be honest, and disagree about the grade. However, for completing the same climb, their scoring would, as of right now, be different. I don't really see how that makes sense. I suppose "everyone takes aggeregate grade" is a seperate suggestion to my original one.

Jacob Blank

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In reply to Ben Lepesant

Also, not having to weigh in on a grade may take some of the pressure off of logging them, perhaps also alleviate some of the toxicity in the climbing community we sometimes get when we talk about grades.