If it took 76 days for the dyno world record holder to do the dyno and then Mark did it on his 3rd shot. Myself, and, I guess the 8a community would like to have some more info explaining it.

Hopefully 8a.nu (read: Jens) will be a bit less audacious in their declarations of grades in the future. There were way too few facts available to even begin to speculate about this problem especially when the people doing the speculation had never even seen the boulder, touched the holds, much less seen photo or video. This sort of baseless speculation is useless and only promotes a sense of sensationalism that really has no merit in climbing. Please be more patient and even-handed in the future.

I've been out to this Dyno and there is no way it's V16. It seems more in line with V9/10 dynos I've tried. (shama lunge, phantom fighter)

Since climbs like this are so specific, its pretty stupid for someone who has never seen the climb to throw out grades like V16 or V13. I'm really not sure why someone in Europe would feel obligated to assign a grade a Colorado dyno within days of an FA.

This whole thing has been pretty funny, and in case it wasn't clear, Mark is making fun of your baseless speculation by registering it as an 8C+

PS: Zion is an eliminate of a V3.

wait i thought in a previous comment (around the time of the FA) it said that zion was a line in itself, and was not an eliminate? i remember someone saying that the only other way to get to the jug was to climb all the way around?

anyway i would love to see the fottage of it, dynos are always cool to watch :)

If it is an eliminate, I do think it should be mentioned. 8a do not normally report eliminations!

Mark has now suggested a downgrade to 7B+!!!!!!!!!!

It should be mentioned that the news was originally not published by the 8a team, but an updated 8a member.

We still need some explaination why Mark thinks it is a 7B+ wen Skyller says it is, "a contender for the worlds hardest".

I'm sorry.
I know there is rock to climb. But at this hour I occasionally find myself here - reading the rock climbing news of our world... And more often than not, I'm entertained. And I smile. With - or at - this community of climbers so poorly represented at this site. On other occasions it's just not fun anymore...
Like today. What the hell people!!??
And honestly Skyler! It is said that only one out of ten understand irony and sarcasm. I seriously hope I'm one of the ignorant nine... Otherwise you may have a problem son! 76 days to figure out the beta on a one move problem... I'm just tired folks.
And sorry.

In the video, Mark does it both going up with his right hand and also as a doubble dyno.

Skyler, the world dyno record holder, claims he tried it with the right hand for 75 days without success.

This story seems to be a joke ;)

I did not report the story in the first place and I did not report the news saying it had been repeated. As 8a is an open community, any of the 80 upgraded members can report news.

Do you think we should take away that possibility for the 8a members?

Futher more, any 8a member can comment the news and there you find the 8C+ speculation. The person who reported the news was wrong saying it was 8a.nu who proposed/speculated it as an 8C+.

I speculated it to be an 8C+ as it was said that the dyno world record holder projected it for 76 days.

Indeed, in this case I published this bit of news. I published it for a few reasons:

1. Mark initially logged his ascent as 8C+ on his scorecard. I noticed it and decided to check some resources and subsequently published the news. Mark shortly after removed the ascent from his scorecard, but by that time i'd already published the news. As I'm located in Australia i sometimes see new ascents logged from the USA before the Europeans do.


2. I recalled the original story of the FA, the fact that Skyler didn't grade his ascent and the subsequent conclusion by Jens that it could possibly be 8C+. Granted, if it is, it's pretty special.

Now, keep in mind that (to me as well), it is often unclear when 8a.nu founders speak on behalf of 8a.nu or themselves. As far as i can see it is not discernible by where the claims are made (Comments or in the news item itself, as website statements are also made in the comments) and so i assume that the 8C+ grade was called out as 8a.nu. Like it or not, if you're the owner and spokesperson of a website, and you portray yourself as prolific (and often controversial) as some do then the line between opinion and statement becomes terribly blurred. In many cases, when people are confronted by a similar issue or situation an alias is assumed and all connection between the two is severed. That way, confusion and miscommunication is minimized.

It was not my intention (but perhaps a fortunate side-effect) that, in this particular situation, the discussion blew out of proportion. The unfounded claims that are sometimes made are very dangerous when aspiring credibility. Credibility is a political game and a choice. It is earned. Badly calculated statements can easily damage credibility. Again, it's a choice.

So yeah, pointing the finger at 8a.nu or Jens in particular is not necessarily the best thing in this environment, as no visitors really do know what's going on behind the scenes. Regardless, i stand by my choice to publish the news, and feel that regardless of the grade fluctuation (between expressed founded opinion and unfounded presumption) it was worthy of the front page.

From now on, i'll stick with proofreading the items whenever i have time. Hopefully my elbows will heal soon and i can focus on getting back to pebble wrestling.

Ciao

@ Jay: I guess the news published by you were newsworthy and I would appreciate if you continued to report. However, as I have said, 8a.nu has not proposed/speculated 8C+, as you wrote, it was a speculation done by me in the comment field.

I started 8a in 1999 as a personal blog with personal opinions.

As it grew to be the largest climbing website in the world I was criticised to post personal opinions. I stopped and nowadays I post my personal opinions in my personal comments. I do think I am allowed to do so!?

I guess that I have done something good with developing 8a.nu and giving personal opinions etc, but nevertheless, 95 % of the feedback I read here is always criticism?

I guess, you could have said,
- I agree! Let this British guys who also are using feet and miles etc understand that we are living in the 21st century. Keep up the good work, Jens!

But as you are one that complain the most, I do not expect something like this from you.

Good on you Jens. It's (in a way) a positive sign that people complain, because it shows that they feel that this site belongs to them in some way. If they were like: "well, it's just that site for that Jens guy" no one would complain & they'd leave the site alone.

Maybe if the forum were more developed along similiar lines to other sites (ie. chat room, news, training etc.) and easier to navigate, instead of linked straight off news items mostly, there would be less criticism & more community going on...?

I think Jens should maybe create himself an alter ego on 8a.nu & see how many people get angry at his comments if they don't know who it is... ;-)

f

Fred, for my part it has less to do with a sense of ownership or even "belonging-ship" to 8a and more of a sense of investment to a climbing ethos that I believe 8a consistently misrepresents with speculative reporting and sensationlist proclamations. In other words, I tend to respond out of a sense of stewardship for a climbing philosophy that 8a often disregards, twists, or disparages.

Jens, it seems so odd to me that you are trying your best to squirm out of any sense of responsibility for the confusion created by this, particularly sense you are so eager to proclaim others as humble yet you seem too prideful to admit you were wrong, misleading, or, at the very least, too quick to embrace an exaggeration. Just apologize - anything else makes you look like a prick.

Each week I do and take 100 decisions that can be criticised. I work very fast, and I guess that you can say I am wrong in maybe 2 - 5 % of the cases, which I change directly when it is noticed.

If I would try to maximize the error to 1 every week I would only have time to report/take decision 50 times a week. 

I always instruct the 8a team that we give prio to produce, instead of just waiting for someone to check translation etc. They have been instructed that it is OK to change errors afterwards.

It is a matter of priority (and money) and you and some other seems to be focusing on the errors. It would be strange if we were to apologize for every error or bug that the webmaster is creating.

Jens for someone so busy you manage to spend an awful amount of time posting stuff and defending yourself. Perhaps more forethought about what you write would save you having to spend yet more time defending your opinions??

Whether the outrageous things you say sometimes are genuine errors of judgement or simply a ploy to beef up the traffic we can only guess. If its to gain traffic on the site then you are actually pretty clever and have pulled the wool over many eyes! If thats the case it works!! Hell I havent climbed in over a year due to injuries and Im taking the time to comment! ;-)

Grades can be hugely different for different body types but two number grades?? Leave grades as subjective, they will never be anything other than that, as we are all so different in physiology and temperament. Its utterly pointless to speculate on grading systems you have no experience of or about problems/routes you have never seen, let alone tried. Of course this calls into question the validity of a ranking based purely on grade and indeed the entire obsession with grades within the community and industry. Climbing is about having fun outdoors, appreciating nature and challenging your body to perform. Cherish your own acheivements and applaud those of others, the rest (grades, competition, arguments etc.) is all just artificial noise.

@ Ben: The visitors have different preferences and I am quite sure some actually think contary to what you are saying, i.e. what you like = they dislike and what you dislike = they like.

It is imposssible to make all 21 000 unique visitors of each weak only happy :)